American, Georgian, and Russian Relations
Published in Gruziya Online
(Georgia) on 27 January 2009
by Irma Chapidze, Tamta Karchava. Source: Mteli kvira (link to
original)
Former Georgian President Eduard Shevardnadze said that Georgia would benefit from better relations between the U.S. and Russia. At the same time, he stated in the interview that, to a great extent, regulating relations with Russia is up to Georgia itself.
Mteli kvira: What do you think might change in Georgian-American relations following Obama’s election?
E. S.: I attentively listened to President Obama's speech at the inauguration. I must say that his performance left a very good impression. He spoke about major issues without any demagoguery. Nevertheless, I don’t expect to see any revolutionary changes within the next two years. The way I understand it, Obama considers establishing a good relationship with Russia his top priority, although in his speech he didn’t say a word about it. Personally, I’d like to see the U.S. and Russia find common ground. This is very important to Georgia, in and of itself.
Taking into account the content of Obama’s speech, the current U.S. administration will not tolerate any injustice. Obama spoke about some regions, but he did not mention Georgia. However, since the new administration intends to improve relations with Russia, it will definitely discuss Georgia, as well. What conclusion this discussion will reach, and what kind of results it will produce, remains to be seen. But, the discussion will certainly happen. Obama used the word “injustice,” saying that America cannot remain indifferent to the injustice that’s happening in the world. This alone speaks volumes.
Mteli kvira: Was this a hint?
E. S.: Of course. I think that this hint is referring to Georgia. It’s very important that prior to Obama’s visit, Secretary of State Hillary Clinton will arrive in Moscow. She has a very good understanding of problems in the Caucasus, and of course Georgia. I know her, and also had a close relationship with her husband. Her visit to Moscow will lay the groundwork, after which the President’s visit will be more productive.
Mteli kvira: How do you envision the restoration of Russian-American relations?
E. S.: We want the policy toward Russia to change, and the relations with Russia to be regulated. This largely depends on us. First, we must take care of our own country, and our democracy. I think that America, especially during Obama’s presidency, will support a real rather than phony democracy. Of course I’m not saying that our democracy is phony. But, we’ll have to change and revise a lot of things, regardless of whether we change our president. It has become almost an end in and of itself.
Mteli kvira: What can be done to restore the Russian-Georgian relations, at least to some extent?
E. S.: In this situation, both sides made mistakes. We can only discuss Georgia’s mistakes after the Tagliavini commission [which is investigating the causes of the Georgian-Ossetian conflict in August 2008] presents its opinion. I believe that we were the first to use military force. It’s true that Russia has occupied a part of Georgia’s territory, but I think that we should have maintained diplomatic relations. This was something we could have used later.
Moscow also made a fatal error by recognizing Abkhazia’s and South Ossetia’s independence. By doing this, it set an example for Chechens and Dagestanis. The independence movement in Tatarstan and Bashkortostan has already started. In other words, Russia has established a precedent for how a small region can become a country. By doing so, it has encouraged its separatist territories. In my time, I made a prediction that what Russia is doing in Georgia will come back to it like a boomerang. A year later, the Chechens started a war, and tens of thousands of people were killed. Back then, the president of Chechnya was a Soviet general, Dudayev.
Russia made a mistake when it recognized the independence of two Georgian regions. However, this was to be expected, since this act was preceded by handing out Russian passports and other acts. Who recognized this independence? Only Nicaragua. I am familiar with that country, where a terrible need reigns. I think that right now, participation of the U.S. is very important in this process. Americans need to convince Russians that NATO is not a threat, and Russia should not oppose Georgia’s entry into the alliance. Incidentally, Obama said that the matter of positioning missile defenses would be reconsidered. In this case, NATO will cease to be a threat to Russia. If the U.S. deploys the systems after all, Russia will respond by also taking appropriate steps. This would be the beginning of a new Cold War, whose first signs have already appeared. But Obama’s statements are promising.
Mteli kvira: Why did the Georgian side succumb to the provocation in August?
E. S.: If we started the war, then apparently we had the wrong information, namely that there were no Russian troops out there. But in reality, Tskhinvali was full of them. It turns out that if we started the war, then we were the victims of the provocation. However, it is necessary to await the conclusion of the international commission. The following statement has been affirmed: Georgia started the war, but Russia’s reaction was inadequate and excessive.
Mteli kvira: Did the prospect of getting Abkhazia and South Ossetia back slip further away after the August events?
E. S.: Incidentally, while I was president, [Georgia] also received a lot of assistance from America. Yet, I also maintained a good relationship with Putin. I have told him that the Americans are training our troops. Putin said that Russia will also help us. I assured him that there will never be American military bases on Georgian territory. After that, our friendship with the Russian President continued. In 2002, Alma-Ata hosted a CIS [Commonwealth of Independent States] counties forum. After the meeting, a Georgian journalist asked Putin what he thought about the U.S. training the Georgian army and border guards. The President of Russia answered: Georgia is an independent country, and will determine itself which partner’s help it should use to build its armed forces.
Later, when Putin was on vacation in Sochi, he called me and offered to meet. Back then, there was a train running from Sochi to Sukhumi. Putin proposed to increase this distance to Samtredia. I, for my part, asked for his help in returning the refugees to at least one region. Putin, in my presence, instructed the commander of the peacekeeping forces to ensure that the Gali region inhabitants return home in three days. With this, I’m illustrating that Putin is a man with whom you can collaborate. We shouldn’t have spoiled the relations between Georgia and Russia. Now, a lot depends on Obama, his meeting with the Russian leaders, and what kind of agreement they’ll reach. I think that they will have a very serious conversation, during which the parties will bring up the Georgian issue.
Mteli kvira: What do you think might change in Georgian-American relations following Obama’s election?
E. S.: I attentively listened to President Obama's speech at the inauguration. I must say that his performance left a very good impression. He spoke about major issues without any demagoguery. Nevertheless, I don’t expect to see any revolutionary changes within the next two years. The way I understand it, Obama considers establishing a good relationship with Russia his top priority, although in his speech he didn’t say a word about it. Personally, I’d like to see the U.S. and Russia find common ground. This is very important to Georgia, in and of itself.
Taking into account the content of Obama’s speech, the current U.S. administration will not tolerate any injustice. Obama spoke about some regions, but he did not mention Georgia. However, since the new administration intends to improve relations with Russia, it will definitely discuss Georgia, as well. What conclusion this discussion will reach, and what kind of results it will produce, remains to be seen. But, the discussion will certainly happen. Obama used the word “injustice,” saying that America cannot remain indifferent to the injustice that’s happening in the world. This alone speaks volumes.
Mteli kvira: Was this a hint?
E. S.: Of course. I think that this hint is referring to Georgia. It’s very important that prior to Obama’s visit, Secretary of State Hillary Clinton will arrive in Moscow. She has a very good understanding of problems in the Caucasus, and of course Georgia. I know her, and also had a close relationship with her husband. Her visit to Moscow will lay the groundwork, after which the President’s visit will be more productive.
Mteli kvira: How do you envision the restoration of Russian-American relations?
E. S.: We want the policy toward Russia to change, and the relations with Russia to be regulated. This largely depends on us. First, we must take care of our own country, and our democracy. I think that America, especially during Obama’s presidency, will support a real rather than phony democracy. Of course I’m not saying that our democracy is phony. But, we’ll have to change and revise a lot of things, regardless of whether we change our president. It has become almost an end in and of itself.
Mteli kvira: What can be done to restore the Russian-Georgian relations, at least to some extent?
E. S.: In this situation, both sides made mistakes. We can only discuss Georgia’s mistakes after the Tagliavini commission [which is investigating the causes of the Georgian-Ossetian conflict in August 2008] presents its opinion. I believe that we were the first to use military force. It’s true that Russia has occupied a part of Georgia’s territory, but I think that we should have maintained diplomatic relations. This was something we could have used later.
Moscow also made a fatal error by recognizing Abkhazia’s and South Ossetia’s independence. By doing this, it set an example for Chechens and Dagestanis. The independence movement in Tatarstan and Bashkortostan has already started. In other words, Russia has established a precedent for how a small region can become a country. By doing so, it has encouraged its separatist territories. In my time, I made a prediction that what Russia is doing in Georgia will come back to it like a boomerang. A year later, the Chechens started a war, and tens of thousands of people were killed. Back then, the president of Chechnya was a Soviet general, Dudayev.
Russia made a mistake when it recognized the independence of two Georgian regions. However, this was to be expected, since this act was preceded by handing out Russian passports and other acts. Who recognized this independence? Only Nicaragua. I am familiar with that country, where a terrible need reigns. I think that right now, participation of the U.S. is very important in this process. Americans need to convince Russians that NATO is not a threat, and Russia should not oppose Georgia’s entry into the alliance. Incidentally, Obama said that the matter of positioning missile defenses would be reconsidered. In this case, NATO will cease to be a threat to Russia. If the U.S. deploys the systems after all, Russia will respond by also taking appropriate steps. This would be the beginning of a new Cold War, whose first signs have already appeared. But Obama’s statements are promising.
Mteli kvira: Why did the Georgian side succumb to the provocation in August?
E. S.: If we started the war, then apparently we had the wrong information, namely that there were no Russian troops out there. But in reality, Tskhinvali was full of them. It turns out that if we started the war, then we were the victims of the provocation. However, it is necessary to await the conclusion of the international commission. The following statement has been affirmed: Georgia started the war, but Russia’s reaction was inadequate and excessive.
Mteli kvira: Did the prospect of getting Abkhazia and South Ossetia back slip further away after the August events?
E. S.: Incidentally, while I was president, [Georgia] also received a lot of assistance from America. Yet, I also maintained a good relationship with Putin. I have told him that the Americans are training our troops. Putin said that Russia will also help us. I assured him that there will never be American military bases on Georgian territory. After that, our friendship with the Russian President continued. In 2002, Alma-Ata hosted a CIS [Commonwealth of Independent States] counties forum. After the meeting, a Georgian journalist asked Putin what he thought about the U.S. training the Georgian army and border guards. The President of Russia answered: Georgia is an independent country, and will determine itself which partner’s help it should use to build its armed forces.
Later, when Putin was on vacation in Sochi, he called me and offered to meet. Back then, there was a train running from Sochi to Sukhumi. Putin proposed to increase this distance to Samtredia. I, for my part, asked for his help in returning the refugees to at least one region. Putin, in my presence, instructed the commander of the peacekeeping forces to ensure that the Gali region inhabitants return home in three days. With this, I’m illustrating that Putin is a man with whom you can collaborate. We shouldn’t have spoiled the relations between Georgia and Russia. Now, a lot depends on Obama, his meeting with the Russian leaders, and what kind of agreement they’ll reach. I think that they will have a very serious conversation, during which the parties will bring up the Georgian issue.
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