“There’s an Acute Anti-Immigrant Atmosphere”

Saskia Sassen is a sociologist and economist especially active in the areas of globalization and migration. She occupies a chair at Columbia University in the United States and is also guest professor at the London School of Economics. It is her belief that economic conditions are putting immigrants in the United States in danger. In an interview with der Standard’s Frank Herrmann, she says that populism and what she calls America’s “chattering class” have taken over the immigration debate in a nation famous for immigration.

STANDARD (STA): How did the United States become such a magnet for immigrants?

SASSEN (SAS): The USA was a nation that had to be built from the ground up; railroads, highways, houses, everything. There was nothing to be inherited from Europe. When the first building phase was complete around the time of the World War I, the United States also closed its doors to immigration for a time. People tend to forget that. They think America has always had an open door policy that admitted a steady stream of immigrants. There were actually phases when this wasn’t the case, such as the period between the world wars.

STA: Why was that?

SAS: A great deal happened in the meantime. The brutal capitalism of the robber barons resulted in mass unemployment and that meant they no longer wanted more immigrants. That didn’t change until 1945 when the USA again needed to expand its labor force and concluded agreements with Mexico. There’s always been an up and down factor to American immigration.

SAT: And what is the situation at present?

SAS: People who came from the backyard of Latin America are being actively persecuted. Tens of thousands of them are incarcerated because they can’t prove they’re in the country legally. Many have had no legal hearings and have no access to legal advice, so they can’t prove to the courts that they’re legal residents. Besides that, I find that it’s very dangerous when laws already criminalize the illegal status of immigrants as they do in Arizona. Don’t forget the Patriot Act pushed through by Bush and Cheney. According to it, the government is empowered to ignore national law in the name of the war on terror. They can deport illegal immigrants they consider dangerous without benefit of legal process. That and the local changes in law now permitted have radically changed the human rights picture. Nighttime raids aren’t legally permissible, but the Patriot Act permits them even though the practice has been called off for now.

STA: Is this altered climate also cyclical? Will it improve after the economy revives?

SAS: This isn’t the first time that an acute anti-immigrant attitude has become the norm, but it’s not strictly cyclical. Today, there’s a tendency to use hate speech regarding immigrants that wasn’t previously acceptable.

STA: And why is that?

SAS: Many Americans today are deeply insecure. For the first time in history, their sons and daughters earn less and have worse career chances than their parents. The norm has always been to believe that the next generation would have it a little better than the previous one. Now, painful realities have emerged on the scene. Those who see themselves on the way down are often happy to congregate with similar people in their society. They can’t get at those on Wall Street but they can get to the immigrants.

STA: But every American is descended from immigrants. Where does this wave of anger come from?

SAS: The anger has always existed and it has always been directed against the latest wave of immigrants. Look at the anger surrounding John F. Kennedy: How can we have a Catholic in the White House? The Irish were still the scapegoats then. They were eventually replaced by immigrants from Caribbean nations. Then the Mexicans were on the hook. The funny thing is that if you ask people what they think about their Mexican neighbors, they always answer, “Oh, they’re wonderful people.” But as soon as you get into the abstract concept of the people as a whole as opposed to individuals, then you hear the cliches: They don’t pay taxes, they’re taking jobs away from us, they don’t speak English. And then you have the sort of talk that comes from what I call the “chattering class.”

STA: To whom are you referring?

SAS: Think of Sarah Palin. Her name appears almost daily in the headlines. The “chattering class” has really become irresponsible, gone to extremes in their navel-gazing. Take their criticism of Barack Obama. People accuse him of not pressing the concept of “American exceptionalism” enough. Can you think of a single European politician constantly saying — being forced to say — “We’re the greatest country on the face of the Earth?”

STA: Still, America as a magnet is basic to its history. What else is there?

SAS: America is losing its standing in this regard. That’s apparent when I talk to students at the London School of Economics. They all used to say they would prefer to go to New York. Now they’re all choosing London.